|The Early Days of a Better Nation|
Ken MacLeod's comments.
“If these are the early days of a better nation, there must be hope, and a hope of peace is as good as any, and far better than a hollow hoarding greed or the dry lies of an aweless god.”—Graydon Saunders
Contact: kenneth dot m dot macleod at gmail dot com Blog-related emails may be quoted unless you ask otherwise.
The Human Genre Project
Comrades and friends
' ... a treeless, flowerless land, formed out of the refuse of the Universe, and inhabited by the very bastards of Creation'
War and Revolution
Impossibilists and Ilk
Viva La Quarta
For the sake of the argument
Sunday, September 21, 2008
one trillion dollars of toxic debt, which it will finance by borrowing from
the People's Bank of China which will in turn take it out of the hide of an increasingly militant working class whose formative political experience was
the Cultural Revolution.
Nothing could possibly go wrong.
... Were I China, I'd be asking for something in return... Taiwan, Japan, the Straights of Malacca, and Indonesia, for instance.
From the looks of the stats, the UK will be a creditor to a large extent as well. In fact the debt will be spread around the world in both private and state hands - the People's Bank of China will only take on a small proportion of the $1 trillion, and what's more it shall do so voluntarily. Remember that US debt as a proportion of GDP is about average for OECD countries and is not nearly as bad as say japan, Italy, Greece, Belgium, and not as bad as the Euro Area as a whole, so everybody should really shelve the doomsaying, nomatter how eager they are for the destruction of the nasty US and the untold suffering and cleansing of the rapture, I mean, revolution.
LOL! You made my day, Ken. I wonder if a stand-up act consisting of showing the right pictures in the right sequence would be a hit.
The Chinese are already a step ahead of you on the Taiwan thing...
Loved the Dr evil connection. He does seem to have more executive ability than Bush.
vavatch: Government debt will be at the level of 70%, which is not about average. True it will be less than Italy (if that's your measure of doing well...), and Japan (whose high debt is largely due to their own version of the same crisis many years ago). Government debt usually rises during downturns, as tax revenue goes down (and given how much of US tax base is based upon real estate, the amount lost could be huge at a local level). So unless there are big revenue cuts (and its not a good time for that economically - it would certainly make any recession/depression deeper and longer), that debt is going to get worse.
We are supposed to be spending £100 billion to get windmills to (very optimisticaly) provide 15% of our power while so reastricting those who want to build nuclear generators without any public subsidy that the building time goes up from 4 years to 10 & running costs at least proportionately. The same but moreso applies to GM.
Neil, re the non-revolting of Chinese peasants: google on "mass group incidents" or follow the fine blog Blood and Treasure for a while ...
Much of the Chinese capital is their dollar mountain accumulated by selling cheap electronics and other consumer (and business) goods to the USA. While they are understandably cautious about putting too much of it into Wall Street's black hole (hence the investment bank passing on taking over Morgan Stanley), a complete collapse of the US would not be good news for China's rulers. So they will try to make the rescue plan work. They will, of course, extract the maximum political advantage in the process - expect to hear rather less about Tibet in the US press, for example.
You are prefectly free Ejh to approve of such things but you cannot seriously deny that they & many others, are Ludite restrictions or that our economy would be growing at closer to the Chines rate if we didn't have them.
Uh ... it's a fun metaphor ... but the problem is that the U.S. won't borrow anything from China for the bailout under the Dodd-Frank bill that went down two days ago.
but you cannot seriously deny that they & many others, are Ludite restrictions or that our economy would be growing at closer to the Chines rate if we didn't have them.
Yes! Neil Craig of the bampot 9% growth party makes an appearance.
"Moreover, I would have thought your assumption that GM + nuclear power = Chinese growth rates would perhaps be considered less than proven by most reputable economists."
ajay, I don't think the formative political experience of a class is necessarily one that has to be lived through that of the majority of current members of that class. The older generation can influence the younger, there are elements in public memory that can be harked back to, etc. To take a less fraught example, the formative political experience of the British working class was the 1945 Labour government for a very long time (though it now no longer is).
Ahh neil, if our host will excuse me for a second- you harp on about 9% growth but completely ignore the realities of the situation. Therefore, everything you say is mince. I don't need to write a huge intellectual screed, after all I've dissected your unscientific arguments on the Scotsman many times, and your economic ones don't look any different.
"To take a less fraught example, the formative political experience of the British working class was the 1945 Labour government for a very long time...".
Guthrie laying out your own ignorance for all to see is not the same as dissecting other's agrguments - something you have never done before & which you admit to not even attempting to do now. If you have some arguments of fact or "intellectual screeds" I would be interested to see them, even once.
Improve? Who said economic growth was the same as improvement?
The big problem is that the bankers are so incompetent that they not only bought the toxic sludge, they don't know where it is now.
I think most people would agree that richer is an improvement over poorer. I have even seen the Green Party claiming they are actually in favour of growth, though obviously, as Guthrie shows, they are lying. If he is in any way honest he will, of course, be able to link to places where he has denounced them for saying this.
I like the idea of those Chinese peasants forming class consciousness, but, unfortunately, that's all gone. I've been to enough Chinese peasant villages to see that the collective economy is dead, as is the collective itself. I've met many people educated during the cultural revolution who are now successful businessman with no observable retention of their maoist education. I have not seen anything close to opposition to capitalism. There are riots and protests all the time, but the gospel of greed is still dominant. I've met communist part members, but nothing close to communists, it's old rhetoric to Chinese people.
expandingtohigherrealms: This is a very fair comment, and I don't want to belabour the point. However, I notice that the (very few) revolutionary/democratic socialists who try to organise in China do find that they have to argue against illusions in Maoism among younger people who are otherwise close to their views. (Some interesting material here.)
ken, i dont doubt it. I would also like to see more advocates of ideologies which don't include the aspiration to be a boss, which is the new Chinese dream, (it's like a fashion that refuses to go out of style.) In my neighborhood, in Shanghai, there is a mosque, where ethnic minorities go, and three churches. There's even a house church in my apartment complex. I hope that the next dominant ideology is something better than a combination of American style protestantism and authoritarian capitalism (without even the 'socialist' welfare policies of we Americans) In the early 1900's, Lin Yu Tang said that the chinese have no social conscience or nationalism, but only loyalty to their own group/kin. Now, after the collectives are dead, that is ever more the case. Thanks for the link. The other night me and my chinese wife were talking about how consistently the history of china has been determined by peasants. I hope that it is presently determined in such a way as to produce something new, rather than repeating the past. Thanks for the link. I'll keep hope alive.
It seems things might be on the verge of going a bit pear-shaped in the Middle Kingdom now.
Ken, I burst out laughing when I saw this less than two minutes ago, even though I am angry at the External World for not letting me engage in pure, abstract thought for about 20 hours a day. Keep up the good work.
By George Berger, at Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:42:00 pm